Finishing Aristotle

Ok, so we've decided to split up Aristotle so as to get it done.

Julia will be reading Poetics.

Janice will be reading Ethics.

Cami will be reading Politics.

We are setting a deadline. Be done by the end of October. That is all.

Aristophanes

Cami

Well, well. I have just finished Aristophanes. Man, I thought the FIRST one (The Clouds) was full of all sorts of crude and surprising humor! Little did I know what would be in store for me by Lysistrata!

Speaking of translation in general. The notes in my edition were very informative. For example, when characters spoke with country bumpkin accents, the notes informed me that this was their modern way of explaining how the Athenians felt about the Spartans—that they were indeed country bumpkins. And some of the puns and jokes were a little too tidy, until the notes explained that they completely changed the lines in order to get the gist of the joke, rather than the literal translation. Because they so thoroughly modernized, it seemed almost TOO much. We were not Greek-ized in return, so we don’t exactly know how to take it.

And so I am done with Aristophanes, and who knows if I am better for it. I definitely learned some things.

Jan

I have just finished our three comedies by Aristophanes. Whew! That last one, "Lysistrata," was racy! I began to wonder if it was pornographic. But I decided it wasn’t because it wasn’t meant to incite lust (although I suppose it could and might have). But I think its main purpose was for fun, even given the licentious time period. It was just an acceptance of life and a funny exaggeration. Those men were sure silly. Hurray for the women. They were funny, too.

My favorite of the three was "Clouds." Hilarious. I loved how Aristophanes made fun of the sophists. It’s interesting that the first thing required for anyone to be taught at the "Think-shop" was to renounce the gods – another great example of how there is nothing new under the sun. People have always employed cunning words to slant and corrupt things, and to evade the consequences of debt and evildoing. O’J.’s lawyers must have studied this same "science of subtle speech . . . with its measures, words and rhythms!"

As for "Birds" . . . I got what it was about, but whoa, the Moby Dick of bird plays. Imagine the costumes! I guess it was pretty artistic and imaginative, supposedly his masterpiece. I think it showed how it doesn’t really matter what we worship if we don’t worship God. It ends up being a false idol.

Julia

Maybe it's because I am no longer a Saturday Night Live fan or a devotee of Letterman or Leno or even Mad Magazine. I guess I'm just an old fuddy-duddy when it comes to crass satire and the plethora of double meanings and puns that were so constantly evident in Lysistrata. All the double meanings were boringly predictable. When it comes to R-rated stand-up comedy and these plays, nothing much has really changed, has it? Perhaps the 3 plays we read were the precursors to bawdiness and the theatre of the absurd.

I guess I am taking the plays too literally, forgetting that they were created to make fun of the sophists. The Clouds is a caricature of Socrates and The Birds, a portrayal of a flawed utopia called Cloudcuckooland. These plays may have been hilarious in there day, but I didn't really get it. Call me humorless.

Sun Tzu: The Art of War

Cami

The Art of War was actually quite refreshing for me—not just because of the length, but because it was pretty easy to understand, or to ignore if I knew it would never really apply to me unless playing a serious game of laser tag. I actually found many insights into parenting, leading a group or a business team, and other basic social situations. How like war life really is.

[My husband, Jake, likes to play a war-based video game called Call of Duty.] As I would read along, I would find a strategy that Jake was consistently ignoring, resulting in his imminent death (they revive immediately in the gaming world). As I watched and read, I started to give him pointers, and told him he really ought to read this book if he was ever going to make it in this game. How very silly, and yet, fitting.

Anyway, my analysis is that this book was much more relatable and even “fun” to read than I expected it to be. I was expecting my pen to stay firmly planted behind my ear, and yet it was out constantly, underlining, making notes in margins. Who knew?

Janice

I read my Art of War edition in a day. I can see how war can be handled best, better, and not well at all, and how a knowledge of human nature is indispensable. I found myself thinking of the Iliad, Confucious, Herodotus, Thucydides, and war movies I’ve seen.

I like the emphasis on avoiding war altogether being the very best way. But if you have no other choice, it must be fought, with the least danger to life and limb, and with respect to the enemy.

Nothing done out of revenge, vanity, greed, or in a rush. Much of the wisdom can be applied to every day life. Loyalty to ideals above all! My favorite quote has to be:

If you are quiet and inconspicuous, others will not be able to figure you out. If you are accurate and orderly, others will not be able to disturb you.

Julia

The areas that I crossed over to from the subject of war were parenting, sports, tennis strategy, politics, living a life in general and business.

The use of numbers was interesting -- 5 thises, 9 thats. Now all the self-help authors use this method . . .

As pertaining to tennis, I underlined lots. One of my favorites, "Increase your enemy's fear of your ability. Prevent his forces from getting together and organizing."

A good note to sign off on would be, "People need an intelligent leader and a worthy commander." Let us hope we get one in this next election, by the grace of God.

May you continue to be brilliant generals.

Thucydides: The History of the Peloponnesian War

Cami

. . . My fellow warriors, it has been found that our small troops are no match for the Thucydian force, despite our allies in Logan and Pleasant Grove. Though our hearts are strong, and our minds willing, we are unable to defeat our enemies . . . . I know when it is time to retreat and make peace with our oppressors. Would it not be more wise, friends, to create a truce, leaving two books of the seven read, and the rest to be read later—perhaps when other allies in the more manageable lands of Sun Tzu and Plato have been formed? I then propose that we send emissaries to Utah to tell our allies to make peace when they can, that we may move on from these tumultuous waters and protect the alliances we have already made. I fear our abilities to conquer future foes depends on our not giving up, but being wise and retreating while retreat is possible. . . .

Hee hee. This is my clever way of giving up while still showing how much I’ve learned from the portions of Thucydides I actually read. Did it work? Let’s hope so. But reading Thucydides was akin to reading Isaiah chapters in the scriptures to me—in one ear, out the other with the occasional feeling of “whoa” attached to the content.

So I am letting myself finish off just two books and hope I got the general feeling of what Thucydides had to offer. The main thing, I’d say, is the difference between Herodotus and Thucydides. It has been helpful during the election debates, Mom’s return to school where they believe in “selective” history, and the general debate about our current war, to see that things have not changed much since the time Thucydides was doing his best to present the truth.

Janice

Greetings, Atheninans. The recent missive from Camillides persuaded me that we MUST move on. As Pericles said in his famous speech so responsibly and aptly recorded by Thucydides, "What I fear is not the amount we have to read, but our own sluggishness." (Actually, he said, "What I fear is not the enemy’s strategy, but our own mistakes." But the format of the statement seemed to fit.) Like the ancient historian’s, our self-assigned inquiry into the past is a great and important one. But we must not get bogged down in details. Because of the immenseness of our lifetime reading plan, we must do as Thucydides, that is, force ourselves to move from the particular to the universal, from each concrete and specific book to underlying patterns and generalities. And I agree with the Camillian proposal, that perhaps we have reaped what rewards we can from the present siege. Even the first two chapters contain wealth enough. From them we can glean important truths, that human nature is predictably flawed, that history repeats itself, and that humankind could learn from history if it only would. Everyone should read at least some Thucydides!

Julia

My book has been lost in one of the many battles of what seems like a bloody siege of at least 28 years. Anyway I only got through Book 2 and this without memory of victories or defeats, places or names which after a while all became a blur. I found I really didn't care much about the players and it was enough to know in the last analysis that Sparta was victorious over Athens, right? Looking at the map and finding the oft named places, I saw that all these skirmishes happened within a rather small section of the world. I guess it is to Thu's credit that he put all the data down in print, but I'm really not sure how it affects us.

So thank you, great Camillides, for waving the white flag of surrender during our labors in the Pelop. wars so that we might draw our inner-troops together to fight more current and personal wars.